Debate with an up-and-coming apologist

I'm having a friendly email debate with a Christian apologist and author of numerous books. He has publicly debated a prominent atheist before a large audience. The video of his debate is available on YouTube, but I don't want to spoil the results. So I'm waiting to reveal with whom. Having a good discussion--so far. Details as I have something to report.

Creationist Politicans

This is a copy of a letter I sent to several Republican TN State Representatives regarding HB 368--an anti-evolution bill. After the letter, see the response I received from one of the Reps.

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Dear Distinguished Representatives:

I appreciate the work you’re doing to lower taxes and keep the federal government at bay. I’m proud to have Republicans in control, but as I expressed this morning, the Republican take-over has become bittersweet. I wanted to take this opportunity to share my objections to HB 368.

The issue of evolution is something in which I have had profound interest in recent years. I was raised a Southern Baptist and was devout. I’m a licensed minister, worked as a youth minister, and even worked for the Tennessee Baptist Convention in Brentwood and the Southern Baptist Executive Committee in Nashville. So, there’s no doubt what I was RAISED to BELIEVE. However, I have researched this topic extensively and know it quite well.

Let’s not mince words. This bill seeks to bring creationism into the classroom. Unfortunately, neither creationism nor Intelligent Design has met the rigorous standards set forth in science. There are absolutely NO peer-review articles on the topic that have met the muster to be included in scientific journals. I’m familiar with all the creationist writers, have read their books, and understand their arguments completely. They’re just not up to par. Evolution on the other hand has over 150 years of rigorous testing and evidence to support it as fact. In fact, evangelical Christian Dr. Francis Collins, who was partially responsible for mapping the human genome, was critical in showing me the fact of evolution. To deny DNA shows the relatedness of all living creatures, one would have to deny DNA shows I am related to my father. It’s the same science. There is a mountain of evidence I could show you, but I won’t bother doing it here. If you have interest, I’d be more than happy to show you the work that has been done.

This bill is bad law, because a PA court ruled in Kitzmiller v. Dover trial in 2005 and the Bush-appointed judge whole-heartedly agreed that Intelligent Design is creationism in disguise. If we allow teachers to teach this unsubstantiated pseudo-science, ANY teacher of ANY religious affiliation can teach his/her view of creation. Creationism is just as unsubstantiated as some Eastern religion that says the universe was birthed by a pink cow in space. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to ridicule Christianity, but I am saying that it is clearly not science and has no place in the classroom--something ALL Republicans should agree with.

To create an atmosphere where teachers are encouraged to teach pseudo-science will dumb-down our students and will be a grave mistake for the future of Tennessee. I beg you to oppose this bill and keep non-science out of the classroom.

Sincerely and respectfully,

Daniel A. Brown

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Response from Rep. Richard Floyd. All punctuation is as he sent it:

Dear Mr. Brown,

May I suggest that you might want to go back and read the book of Genesis one more .Thank our awesome God and His wonderful Son ,Jesus, that I was able to miss your professors.

Because He Lives !!!

Rep. Richard Floyd"

A Letter to Pastor Livengood

I recently attend FBC Columbia, TN and you'll see my entry about the experience here. I wrote the pastor pointing out flaws in his church and sermon and have received no response. So I figured I'd make the letter public since I've received no response in 16 days. Enjoy.

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Dr. Livengood,

My name is Daniel Brown and I am a former member of First Family, a former employee of the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, and a former Christian. I graduated from Belmont, after transferring from Union as a religion major. I worked as a youth minister for four years and preached occasionally while in college. Ultimately, I changed my major to design communication and used my degree to work for the Tennessee Baptist Convention and for the now-defunct Cooperative Program Development Division of the SBC.

Around 2003, I decided to become self-employed and use my free-time to research my faith deeper—delving into the origin of Scriptures in particular. I resurfaced with a rational approach to religion and decided the Scriptures couldn’t be authenticated and the miracles couldn’t be remotely validated. Thus, I denounced the church, Christianity, and Christ and now claim to be a rational, free-thinking, truth-seeking individual. Solid, irrefutable evidence is king. If a philosophical statement cannot be demonstrated as true or false, I suspend judgment. Therefore, the “God exists” claim is meaningless to me. However, I must say I thoroughly enjoy discussing religion with educated Christians.

I decided last week to begin visiting churches again on a regular basis to see if anything has changed in the way the Gospel is presented. Yours was the first church I’ve visited in over seven years.

There were several items that disturbed me about your sermon. First of all, you began with a direct assault on science, philosophy, and education in general. You praised the foolishness of the message of Christ, but did nothing to add a sense of validity to it. I hoped for some sort of paradoxical truth that would tie up the loose end, but nothing was offered. Repeating the mantra that “the message of the Cross is foolish” doesn’t make it a good position. It only reinforces the non-thinking required to be a Christian.

You invited the college-age students to seek you out for advice on how to process new information they receive in school. You made the typical, unlettered, 1970s Christian claim that “they (whoever THEY is) dated this-or-that to be several million years old when it’s only 30 years old” or something along those lines. You cited no source and made a wild, deceptive claim thinking no one would call you out on it. This is disheartening considering your level of education. Scientists use a variety of dating methods to verify each date claim made—Uranium-lead dating, Rubidium-strontium dating, Samrarium-neodymium dating, potassium-argon, argon-argon, fission track, optical, luminescence, thermoluminescence, and many more. A quick Google search would provide you with this info. I am appalled by your complete negligence with this statement.

The church service did nothing to change my perspective on the church and was everything I expected. By the way, only one person spoke to me the entire time and he specifically said he didn’t know if I was a member or a visitor. You might want to work with your people on that.

I apologize if I’m coming off as irritated, but I am growing weary of Christians spreading false information. I expected to hear things I disagreed with, but not outright attacks on critical thinking, science, and rational thought.

I hope you aren’t too put off by my email and I’d love to engage you in further discussion.

Sincerely,

Daniel A. Brown

PO Box 1331

Columbia, TN 38402

der_hammerman@yahoo.com

Typical

The (Ir)Relevant Church

Another week, another church. This week I visited Hope Presbyterian Church, a mega-church located in the suburbs of Memphis, TN, with an average weekly attendance of 7,500. As expected, it is full of wealthy, white families with a few black folks scattered here-and-there for good measure. After navigating the expanse of minivans and SUVs and dodging families with the standard 2.5 children, I made it into the front door. Once inside, I ran the gauntlet along the corridor where parishioners were dashing between vending machines and coffee kiosks to stock up before the big show.

Inside the sanctuary, I made my way to the 7th row for the best view. The show started promptly at 11:15am. The music was a good mix of contemporary and traditional songs, but was essentially a 30-minute concert starring the zombie-like choir and various musicians—from guitarist to drummer to saxophonist. When the music team finished, there was a customary offering and the pastor, Dr. Craig Strickland delivered his sermon. His homily was the third part of a seven-part series titled, “Seven Words from the Cross”. In the series, Dr. Strickland is lecturing on the seven comments Jesus made while hanging from the cross. By the way, these comments by Jesus are not consistent across the four gospels, but that is neither here nor there. Last Sunday, he discussed “love” citing John 19:25-27, where Jesus says to his Mother, “Woman, here is your son (John the disciple),” and, “Behold your mother,” speaking to John of Mary. He goes on to explain that loving your family and treating fellow believers as family is a good thing. The entire sermon was pleasant and non-judgmental. Because of its lack of substance, I won’t bother with further analysis.

This entire experience is a shining example of why Christianity is wrong and evil. Contemporary Christianity is deceptive. Believers focus on sweet and loving passages by Jesus and Paul, while ignoring the genocide and rape sanctioned by their god in the Old Testament. They emphasize Jesus as a loving, humble servant who only wants to save you from his vengeful father who seeks to cast you into eternal torment. The moderate, touchy-feely version of this religion legitimizes all the fringe denominations, which lie to children as a means of propagandizing them and psychologically and emotionally abuse them.

The truth is Christianity is VERY judgmental and preaches the wicked message of an afterlife of eternal torture to the gullible masses. This experience did nothing but expose the shallowness of contemporary Christianity. Christianity is an evil enterprise that seeks to perpetuate and “make relevant” a dim-witted proposition for financial gain and power.

Church website: www.hopepres.com

What's your favorite argument for the existence of God?

I've seen plenty of arguments and none are strong. This is a list I found and LOVE it. It's hilarious. Which is your favorite? Check it out:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

Jesus thinks Rape is A-OK

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

John 10:30-33

A Visit to the Asylum

Until this past Sunday, I had not sat through a church worship service in over seven years. After considering a number of churches for this adventure, I decided to attend First Family in Columbia, TN. About twelve or so years ago, this particular church—otherwise known as First Baptist Church—decided to build a large complex on Pulaski Highway south of town. After nearly sixty years on the corner of High St. and West 8th St downtown, the church left an enormous empty facility and a large parking lot where several historic homes once stood. This action demonstrated their arrogance and disregard for the neighborhood and lack of financial and environmental stewardship, but I digress.

The experience at First Family was as one would expect—mind-numbing, overly-repetitive praise music and a sermon full of the standard rhetoric with a spattering of conceited applause and AMENs. The pastor made the usual religious pleas and wisecracks to elicit an emotional response from the crowd. I was left wondering what had happened and how could I regain the hour I lost.

Before the service began, one person who happened to be sitting directly in front me spoke and shook my hand saying, "I don't know if you're a member or not, but hello." No one spoke to me for the remainder of the service—including during the time when everyone is encouraged to speak to their “neighbor”. I suppose I didn’t appear neighborly enough despite being dressed for the occasion with a sports coat and a genuine smile.

The first thirty minutes was a prolonged performance by a female who I would assume is the music minister. I don’t know her name, because it appears in neither the bulletin nor on the web site. There were the standard sing-alongs, but no one in the crowd seemed to be familiar enough with them to heartedly participate. The lyrics were convoluted and ludicrous. One of the seemingly never-ending praise songs had the chorus “There is a fountain who is a King.” What the hell? Having grown up in church, I unfortunately know what this means, but to an average person off the street, it would seem utterly ridiculous.

After a parade of various ministers speaking about goings-on in the church, on-stage walks Dr. Steve Livengood, the senior pastor. His sermon “Perfect Nonsense” was mindless drivel. I sat through the entire sermon asking myself if this preacher is seminary-educated. Turns out he has a doctorate—from where I don’t know. I would assume from one of six, fine Southern Baptist seminaries. Despite the “Dr” in front of his name, Pastor Steve offered a homily that lacked substance and bordered on rambling.

From the title, you may have the gist of its content. As you would expect from an evangelical, Pastor Steve criticized secular education, science, and abortion. Citing I Corinthians 1:18-25, he praises the absurdity of the message of Christ. Verses 22-23 say “Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.” There is nothing profound or meaningful in this verse. It’s merely stating the obvious. The pastor reiterated this concept of foolishness many times as if that somehow adds truth and meaning to the message of Christ. I waited with baited breath for some profound argument with a twist of paradoxical truth only to be left wanting. Somehow in the twisted world of Christianity, foolishness and absurdity trumps intellect and rational thought.

In my opinion, the church has simply created a problem of sin and disobedience to their god, assembled what they consider to be a solution, and is now trying to reconcile all of this with more mumbo-jumbo. Pastor Steve says that those seeking an answer simply don’t understand the remedy god has put forth. In other words, the foolish ones are not those accepting the absurd message of Christ’s redemption, but those seeking truth and knowledge.

He goes on to attack philosophy and science. In a portion of the sermon directed at college students (of which I’m sure there aren’t many in this particular church), he tells them that if they are taught something in college and it doesn’t coincide with Scripture to reject it. He goes as far as to say that they may contact him via email or phone if they are confused. No doubt he will set them straight as to what to believe and how to filter contemporary scientific facts through the lens of an ancient, unauthenticated book of myths. This is the epitome of indoctrination, propaganda, and deceit. Not only has this church ruined the minds of children, they continue spreading ignorance and misinformation when the children are young adults.

In keeping with the standard evangelical Christian message, Pastor Steve reiterates the claim that humans are born corrupt and in need of salvation. The performance ends with the usual Christian mantra, “How do I know all of this? The Bible tells me so.”

This experience was beyond disappointing. The musical performance was mediocre, the sermon was elementary and lacking any true substance and the people were less than inviting. I give the full experience a D-.

The church's website is www.thefirstfamily.org.

God exists

The statement has been used flippantly throughout history. The concept of god is undefined, paradoxical, and unverifiable/falsifiable. It should be discarded as a philosophical proposition until there is ample scientific evidence and at least a clear definition of what god is. Let’s examine this problematic assertion.

Defining God
To assert a god exists, we must develop a definition of “god” upon which everyone can agree. A daunting task, I know. To some, god is everything. To others, god is outside everything. What does it look like? How big is it? Is it good, bad, or both? Did it create everything or only some of everything? Did it create nothing and only exists to manipulate what is already there? Did the universe exist before it and was created by some larger being? If so, what created it? Is it the god of the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Native Americans, Native Africans, aboriginal Australians, or some other tribe? Is it many gods or one? Is it infinite or finite? Can it mate with humans as described by the Greeks and the Christians? Has there been, is there now, or will there ever be a human who can speak definitively about this god and its true nature? How do we determine his/her credibility on this topic of god? We cannot use a holy book to answer these questions, because we must first establish which holy book is accurate and which author is credible. There are many more questions, but these will suffice to demonstrate the breadth of what we don’t know about deities. Once the answers to these questions have been established, we can then wrestle with the basics regarding its possible existence. As we can see, obtaining clear, concise, and factual answers to these questions is an audacious task.

The God Definition Paradox
To most religious folk I’ve encountered, their god is a paradox. It created everything yet was not itself created. It created the laws of the universe, yet is not subject to these laws. As per Christian tradition, their god is loving and kind in the New Testament, but in the Old Testament, he is jealous and blood-thirsty. They claim to maintain a relationship with it and communicate with it, yet have never physically seen or heard it. It cannot be examined in the known world yet supposedly operates in it freely and openly. As these paradoxes demonstrate, there is no clear agreement on the nature of god.

Can we verify/falsify the proposition?
If we were to be lucky enough to settle on a definition of god, we could then determine if the aforementioned proposition is true or false. It must be verified to maintain any relevance in reality. This proposition is metaphysical, but is stated as fact within the realm of reality, therefore it should be subject to testing within the natural world. Our only tool for determining the validity of a proposition is the science method, which requires the subject to be present in natural form. This is impossible, because deities are conveniently invisible.

Faith as a means of verification
I’ve posed these questions and objections to religious people before and their ultimate response is always, “one must have faith” or “I know my version of god is correct (I know that I know)”. Faith cannot answer these questions. In which version of god do I place my faith? Faith in this instance is not faith in the concept alone, but faith in the messenger and faith that he is credible to deliver an accurate and truthful message. Faith only raises more questions and does nothing to validate god claims.

Even if we could establish a coherent definition for god and could verify its existence beyond a reasonable doubt, the work of determining which god is correct and determining its will and purpose for us will have only begun. Discussing the concept of god is an entertaining exercise, but outside of that, it offers nothing positive and meaningful to our lives. Being convinced there is a god and that one can mystically hear its voice or know its will is a dangerous endeavor that transforms seemingly good people into propagators of lies and willing accomplices in the systematic corruption of children.

Try Harder

Religion is a virus.

I run into a lot of Christians who would agree with that statement. “My faith is not a religion,” they say. In the 90s, Christians decided to play semantics to draw new converts who were traditionally critical of religion and church. This happened along with pastors trading in their suits and ties for Hawaiian shirts and the introduction of guitars and drums into mainstream church services. At this point, the church also dropped the tiny bit of intellectualism it had for a new, non-judgmental, post-modern emotionalism. Yes, this helped to draw in new members, but there remains a greater dearth of critical thinking in the church than ever before.

This movement toward the contemporary church model has left believers intellectually empty and defenseless against the renewed attacks on their faith. When I was a Christian, I rejected this contemporary movement and felt church was lacking something. I moved my membership to a traditional church in hopes that I could find more “meat” in Christian training. It helped even less. When I turned 30, the transition began for me. Until that time, I had been a devout Southern Baptist—having worked for the denomination for 10 years. The decision was made to truly examine my faith—to dig deep and understand as much as I could about the origins of Scripture. It wasn’t long before I realized how little could be substantiated. “Faith” was no longer enough to fill the gaps of evidence.

As time progressed, I ultimately rejected Christianity. Since that time, I have immersed myself in further study of the origins of Scripture, studying Islam and other religions, and catching up on philosophy and science—biology, DNA, mapping of genomes, the theory of evolution via natural selection, astronomy, physics, neuroscience, and so on. By playing the devil’s advocate, I was able to weed out my wrong beliefs.

Now, I find myself arguing with puny Christians—not only weak in their faith, but mind-numb and ignorant. Their arguments are sophomoric and reveal lack of introspection. By posting a simple anti-religion quote on Facebook, I can draw in the weakest of them. Their arguments—whether theological or pseudo-scientific—are unfounded, and quite frankly, embarrassing to read.

I have a word of advice for Christians—try harder. Play the devil’s advocate with yourself. Read material you wouldn’t otherwise read. Think critically. Question your faith. Stop living in a fog of ignorance. This is the only way you will grow as a person and live a full and fruitful life.

Brian David Mitchell...you're doing it wrong!

Elizabeth Smart took the stand yesterday in the trial of Brian David Mitchell, the crazed Mormon who kidnapped and raped her. She described the way he stealthily removed her from her bed while her sister lay just inches away. Mitchell claims God told him to do it. Therefore, it must be ok. Right? The only problem with that is normally the Hebrew god tells his people to brutally murder the entire family and village before taking the young virgin as your wife.

I’m in a quandary. I thought kidnap and rape were wrong. Isn’t the Bible supposed to be our source of morality? Yet, the Bible condones it over and over. I need to find a verse that specifically says, “Kidnapping and raping a young girl is ALWAYS wrong.” I’ve found plenty of verses encouraging it and not one condemning it. Can someone help me out here?

Questions for Christians

From time-to-time, I receive emails from Christians full of questions regarding my deconversion--my rejection of the Christian argument. I always respond to their questions thoroughly and then send my set of questions for them. I generated the list off-the-cuff about 2 years ago. As of late, no Christian has even attempted to answer these questions. They usually claim to be too busy despite the fact I just answered their questions. I'm hoping someone will respond now that I'm posting it as a blog.

Please try not to speculate or provide standard Christian arguments. I'm looking for well-thought out responses.

God
1) Define god.
2) Did your god create sin? Why or why not?
3) Why does your god allow suffering?
4) How and why does vicarious redemption atone for sin? Why is it necessary?
5) What is heaven?
6) What is hell?
7) Why did god not mention hell in the OT?
8) What scientific evidence do you have for the afterlife?
9) What makes your belief any different from a person who claims to have been abducted by a UFO?
10) If the Hebrew god is your moral arbiter and is your source for direction, how do you personally determine his will since he is unseen and mute?
11) If your god “fine-tuned” the universe for life, why is life irregular and chaotic?
12) Have you ever seen a person raised from the dead?
13) Have you seen your god regrow a limb or does he just “heal” things we can’t see?
14) How do you reconcile the inconsistencies among the thousands upon thousands of Biblical manuscripts?
15) If god came to you and told you to kill your child, would you? Please do not respond with "he won't". He did with Abraham. This is a serious question. Would you?
16) If he told you to blow up a public building, would you? He has demonstrated in the Bible that he would ask such a thing.

Biology
1) Show fossils that unmistakably support the creationist view.
2) Show me the alternative system of dating used by creationists.
3) Show me the creationist explanation for vestigial organs.
4) Show me the creationist explanation for fused genes in Chromosome 2 in humans.
5) Show me scientific evidence for the creation story.
6) Show me 10 reputable scientists who have published alternative views to evolution by natural selection.
7) Show me a gene that shows markings of having been created and not evolved.
8) Give me a valid scientific explanation why there are no human bones found in the same layer of earth and/or mingled with dinosaur bones.

Morality
1) If the Hebrew god is good, why did he have the Hebrews commit genocide and rape?
2) Are the Ten Commandments a good moral code?
3) Name them off the top of your head without cheating.
4) If the Hebrews did not have the Ten Commandments until they were wandering in the desert from whence came their morality beforehand?

How do you know what you claim to know in your answers above?

Liberty Lesson—Understanding the Indoctrination of Positive Liberty

The concept of liberty is dear to my heart. It’s a fundamental right, because it is the state in which we naturally seek to exist. Humans and animals desire freedom. Lock up a human or an animal and he tries to escape. In fact, some humans would rather die than be imprisoned.

Many other so-called “rights” are cultural or secondary and are derived from a governing body. In contemporary Western society, many Americans mistake cultural or social rights for fundamental or natural rights. Healthcare, housing, or even clean water are NOT fundamental rights because to have them, there must be an institution in place to provide them—which is not always possible or the case. They are important and sometimes necessities, but not rights.

The basic role of government is to ensure that our fundamental rights are not infringed upon. That’s it and nothing more. Often times, when these secondary, cultural rights are enforced for some, it is at the expense of fundamental rights of others. This is morally, ethically, and constitutionally WRONG. When we sacrifice our fundamental rights for necessities—food, housing—and perks—health insurance, security—we lose our freedom. When government becomes the force infringing upon those basic rights, it becomes the enemy. This is central to libertarian, classic liberal, and individualist anarchist thought. According to philosopher, Sir Isaiah Berlin, this is known as negative liberty (for further explanation, click here).

American Democrats, Democratic Socialists, Socialists, Communists, anarcho-communists, and syndicalists view liberty in an entirely different way—as positive liberty. They see rights and freedom managed and distributed by government or a centralized body—accompanied by power to enforce. They view the individual as part of a whole and should be told how to live and coddled by the nanny state. The laws they establish must be followed on pain of punishment. This inevitably leads to dictatorship and tyranny.

Yes, freedom is a philosophical concept, but science has demonstrated that it is part of our reality. In the wild, you see no forced compliance among animals. You only see survival. If one doesn’t hunt and strive, he doesn’t eat and therefore succumbs to natural death or is eaten himself. Likewise, if an individual, small company, large bank, auto manufacturer, or government can’t survive within the natural framework, they should be allowed to fail and discarded.

When I see fellow atheists turning toward socialism, I am appalled. It is NOT the way of a free thinker or rational person. They shake the shackles of religion only to replace them with the shackles of government. Unfortunately, many people seek to be controlled—whether through government, religion, or some other institution. It is unnatural and weak. These weak-minded people should be defeated and left to rot in their own solipsism.

Most who know me, know I have rejected the concept of god and am not subject to an imagined being or its mouthpiece, the church. Likewise, I will not be subject to any government.

Easter--A "Uniquely" Christian Holiday

Ahhhhh…Easter. Fun time of the year. It’s a blast watching the kiddies running around hunting eggs, looking for that special pantyhose egg with the $50 in it. I remember those days. Oh, what fun.

Making a religion relevant to the audience is a very common practice. It happened in ancient times and still happens today—look at contemporary Christian television, books, music, and movies, not to mention the contemporary worship services. All are attempts to mask the absurdity of the religion and make it more acceptable to a larger audience.

Friday night, I saw Clash of Titans. I’m quite familiar with Greek myths and classical Greek literature. While watching the movie, I was reminded of the parallels between Jesus and other religious heroes throughout history. In the Greek myth, Perseus, was the son of the sun god of Zeus and Danaë, a human. Sound familiar? This story was well-known in the ancient Near East and would have been very well-known among the Greek writers of the New Testament.

Easter was a pagan holiday usurped by the Christians as a sneaky way to rope pagans into believing in Jebus. It’s easy to convince mind-numb people who already believe in a resurrected Greek god—like Attis, for instance—to believe in a resurrected Christian god. A god is a god and it’s all ridiculous.

It's Trendy to have a Non-White Child

The American Baptists who journeyed to Haiti in recent days to round up black kids and take them to the Dominican Republic no doubt had plans to make them available for adoption in the US. The ultimate plan was not part of “doing the right thing for Jesus”, but rather a need to feed the trendy movement in suburban, white, Christian circles to have a dark-skinned child. Once adopted, these children are held up as trophies symbolizing the parents’ religiosity. “Steven Curtis Chapman does it, so we should do it.”

Some of the children begged, “Don’t take me. I have parents!” These objections were overlooked in the name of Jesus and American chauvinism. It’s pathetic and wrong. It makes you wonder how many other non-white children adopted into Christian families were stolen.